Two first basemen and 8 arms fill this section of ten. Let's get our current all-time rosters, career first, then the subjective/peak/who do you draft roster.
Career value:
C Rodriguez (Bench)
1B Pujols (Connor)
2B Gehringer (Carew)
SS Davis (Vaughan)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Yastrzemski (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Clemente (Kaline)
RHP Jenkins (Roberts, Ryan, Mussina, Clarkson, Martinez )
LHP Plank (Glavine, Hubbell)
1B Pujols (Connor)
2B Gehringer (Carew)
SS Davis (Vaughan)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Yastrzemski (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Clemente (Kaline)
RHP Jenkins (Roberts, Ryan, Mussina, Clarkson, Martinez )
LHP Plank (Glavine, Hubbell)
Subjective/Peak
C Bench (Berra)
1B Pujols (Bagwell)
2B Robinson (Carew)
SS Vaughan (Banks)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Jackson (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Flick (Clemente)
RHP Rivera (Martinez, Walsh, Feller, Clarkson, Marichal )
LHP Hubbell (Newhouser, Plank)
1B Pujols (Bagwell)
2B Robinson (Carew)
SS Vaughan (Banks)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Jackson (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Flick (Clemente)
RHP Rivera (Martinez, Walsh, Feller, Clarkson, Marichal )
LHP Hubbell (Newhouser, Plank)
40. Jimmie Foxx 1B WARP+B-R WAR=177.1
Athletics/Red Sox
1925-45
OPS+ 163
Translated BA/OBP/SLG: .298/.396/.602
MVPQ 1932 (20), 1933 (17.6), 1935 (16)
Double X lets us continue two sublists - the first would be everyone with 3+ MVPQ seasons, let's just list position players:
MVPQ 1932 (20), 1933 (17.6), 1935 (16)
Double X lets us continue two sublists - the first would be everyone with 3+ MVPQ seasons, let's just list position players:
Ken Griffey
Ed Delahanty
Ernie Banks (4)
Ron Santo
Dick Allen
Jackie Robinson
Frank Thomas
Arky Vaughan (4)
Joe Dimaggio
Jeff Bagwell
Wade Boggs (5)
Albert Pujols (8)
Jimmie Foxx
Joe Dimaggio
Jeff Bagwell
Wade Boggs (5)
Albert Pujols (8)
Jimmie Foxx
And, every 20th/21st century position player with a 20+ combined WAR/WARP season:
Sosa 2001 (22.5)
Robinson 1951 (21.7)
Boudreau 1948 (22.6)
Banks 1959 (21.2)
Santo 1967 (20.5)
Robinson 1951 (21.7)
Boudreau 1948 (22.6)
Banks 1959 (21.2)
Santo 1967 (20.5)
Biggio 1997 (20.3)
Yount 1982 (21.1)
Yaz 1967 (22.1)
Vaughan 1935 (21.2)
DiMaggio 1941 (20.5)
Bagwell 1994 (20.6)
Pujols 2009 (21.2)
Foxx 1932 (20)
Pujols will go by Foxx for career value early in 2011, but is already by him for peak/subjective on every score. Foxx edges his way past Bagwell/Thomas/Connor into the backup 1B spot.
39. Lefty Grove LHP 178
1925-41
Athletics/Red Sox
ERA+ 148
MVPQ 1930 (16.8), 1931 (17), 1936 (16),
Grove's got 3 MVPQs, so here are the pitchers similarly situated
Grove pretty easily blows by every lefthander already on the board.
Grove's got 3 MVPQs, so here are the pitchers similarly situated
Pedro Martinez
John Clarkson (4)
Carl Hubbell
Ed Walsh (5)
Hal Newhouser
Bob Feller
Bob Caruthers
Lefty GroveGrove pretty easily blows by every lefthander already on the board.
38. Bob Gibson RHP 178.3
1959-75
Cardinals
ERA+ 128
MVPQ 1968 (24.6), 1969 (21), 1970 (18.7), 1972 (16.7)
Here are the post 19th C pitchers with 20+ seasons.
Here are the post 19th C pitchers with 20+ seasons.
Feller 1946 (21.3)
Marichal 1966 (20.6)
Walsh 1908 (22.5)
Walsh 1910 (22.1)
Walsh 1912 (22.2)
Marichal 1966 (20.6)
Walsh 1908 (22.5)
Walsh 1910 (22.1)
Walsh 1912 (22.2)
Martinez 2000 (20.2)
Gibson 1968 (24.6)
Gibson 1969 (21)
Gibson's 1968 is the best season on the list thusfar, and he's the only man thusfar with consecutive 20+ seasons. He slides behind Walsh on the all time peak rotation. The question now is who to drop - Marichal or the third lefty, Newhouser. Giants v. Dodgers for the last spot in the rotation! Marichal had the best season, but Newhouser had one more MVPQ year. Newhouser's adjusted ERA is better. He gets the spot.
37. Steve Carlton LHP 178.5
1965-88
Phillies/Cardinals
Phillies/Cardinals
ERA+ 115
MVPQ 1972 (25.4), 1980 (18.5),
Your new best season of all time - Steve Carlton, 1972. That's not enough to get Lefty past either Newhouser or Clarkson though, and he isn't on the all time team.
MVPQ 1972 (25.4), 1980 (18.5),
Your new best season of all time - Steve Carlton, 1972. That's not enough to get Lefty past either Newhouser or Clarkson though, and he isn't on the all time team.
36. Kid Nichols RHP 178.9
1890-06
Braves
ERA+ 140
MVPQ 1890 (18.2), 1893 (17.8), 1897 (17.1), 1898 (16.6),
4MVPQ seasons for Nichols, and that ERA+ is going to stick him in the all time rotation. He's ahead of Gibson, behind Walsh - and after all that Newhouser v. Marichal deliberation, now neither is in the rotation and we're back down to two lefthanders.
Braves
ERA+ 140
MVPQ 1890 (18.2), 1893 (17.8), 1897 (17.1), 1898 (16.6),
4MVPQ seasons for Nichols, and that ERA+ is going to stick him in the all time rotation. He's ahead of Gibson, behind Walsh - and after all that Newhouser v. Marichal deliberation, now neither is in the rotation and we're back down to two lefthanders.
35. Randy Johnson LHP 179.3
1988-09
Mariners/Diamondbacks
ERA+ 136
MVPQ 1995 (16.1), 2002 (16.5),
The Unit wasn't as good as Grove - but he goes by Hubbell - a tough section for Giants as they lose both rotation spots.
Mariners/Diamondbacks
ERA+ 136
MVPQ 1995 (16.1), 2002 (16.5),
The Unit wasn't as good as Grove - but he goes by Hubbell - a tough section for Giants as they lose both rotation spots.
34. Bert Blyleven RHP 180
1970-92
Twins/Indians
ERA+ 118
MVPQ 1973 (18)
Tremendous accumulated value for Blyleven, clearly worth of the HOF inclusion, but he can't crack the rotation.
Tremendous accumulated value for Blyleven, clearly worth of the HOF inclusion, but he can't crack the rotation.
33. Cap Anson 1B 180.9
1871-97
Cubs
OPS+ 142
.313/.397/.471
MVPQ none, Best season 1886 (13.6)
If he was half a dozen years older, he fights in the Civil War.
Cubs
OPS+ 142
.313/.397/.471
MVPQ none, Best season 1886 (13.6)
If he was half a dozen years older, he fights in the Civil War.
32. Gaylord Perry RHP 181.6
1962-83
Giants/Indians/Rangers
ERA+ 117
MVPQ 1972 (22), 1974 (16.1)
Did you know Gaylord's two best seasons were in Cleveland?
Did you know Gaylord's two best seasons were in Cleveland?
31. Phil Niekro RHP 191.5
1964-87
Braves
ERA+ 115
MVPQ 1978 (18.4)
We finish the 30s with the Blyleven, Anson, Niekro - legit Hall of Famers with long, productive careers that really give them a ton of career value, but they aren't real threats, at this point, to crack the all time peak roster.
Speaking of rosters, with 170 players down, here's where we are.
Subjective/Peak
Braves
ERA+ 115
MVPQ 1978 (18.4)
We finish the 30s with the Blyleven, Anson, Niekro - legit Hall of Famers with long, productive careers that really give them a ton of career value, but they aren't real threats, at this point, to crack the all time peak roster.
Speaking of rosters, with 170 players down, here's where we are.
Career value:
C Rodriguez (Bench)
1B Anson (Pujols)
2B Gehringer (Carew)
SS Davis (Vaughan)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Yastrzemski (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Clemente (Kaline)
RHP Niekro (Perry, Blyleven, Nichols, Gibson, Roberts)
LHP Johnson (Carlton, Grove)
1B Anson (Pujols)
2B Gehringer (Carew)
SS Davis (Vaughan)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Yastrzemski (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Clemente (Kaline)
RHP Niekro (Perry, Blyleven, Nichols, Gibson, Roberts)
LHP Johnson (Carlton, Grove)
Subjective/Peak
C Bench (Berra)
1B Pujols (Foxx)
2B Robinson (Carew)
SS Vaughan (Banks)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Jackson (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Flick (Clemente)
RHP Rivera (Martinez, Walsh, Nichols, Gibson, Feller, Clarkson )
LHP Grove (Johnson)
1B Pujols (Foxx)
2B Robinson (Carew)
SS Vaughan (Banks)
3B Boggs (Brett)
LF Jackson (Delahanty)
CF DiMaggio (Griffey)
RF Flick (Clemente)
RHP Rivera (Martinez, Walsh, Nichols, Gibson, Feller, Clarkson )
LHP Grove (Johnson)
